In my teens and early twenties, I often hitch-hiked. Sometimes, I hitch-hiked with a friend also named Mark. Most people who pick up hitch-hikers like to talk. Several times, while hitching with Mark, drivers made statements with which I knew Mark disagreed. Nonetheless, and to my dismay, Mark enthusiastically affirmed these drivers.
As a gynecologist, I’m with you 100%. Great topic … from metabolic issues that nobody wants to discuss including the infertility docs that want your cash to the impatience of the patient , and some of these drugs are horrible… side note lets talk about the kids waiting to be adopted . The topic is endless and very controversial . Thanks Mark 🌼
You’re a very good writer and your essays are both entertaining and informative. I hope you will continue to write on topics beyond coronamania. There are many topics in modern society that could benefit from your searing logic and intellectual honesty. This was a great essay.
Thank you for a very thoughtful and informed essay about these points that nobody wants to think about or discuss. Just one of the many shifts in what people take for granted, that has manifested over the past few decades. Losing sight of the sacredness and gift of life will lead us astray in so many ways!
Wow. Unexpectedly off-topic (at least from what I've come to expect), but such a great piece of writing. I appreciate the depth of your essay. I'm not a writer, but one another point I might add is the long-term health harms to moms (and egg donors) who self-inject with all sorts of hormones to make this process happen. I've read in the past about the blind-eye that is turned towards the health risks of young women who are financially incentivized to donate eggs multiple times. The health implications of this are not known or even addressed. And on a personal level, I know a young adult born of a donated egg who grew up with such a yearning to know her "other" mother, the egg donor. While this is a topic more typically considered with adopted children, I wonder if it's less frequently addressed with respect to children born of donated eggs. Thank you for addressing this topic in such a well-researched and thoughtful manner.
Thank you for the insightful, crisp clarity of your article Mark. You must have been one heck of a lawyer if you prepared for, and articulated, every case as you did this incredibly important but emotional subject.
Treating children as a commodity to satisfy the happiness of the “adults” is a horrifying concept. It makes my heart fairly shriek with the utter wrongness of the notion. Not only gamete donors, but women turned into incubators to grow the baby for a couple is just another way of cheapening life and turning it into an industrial commodity. What happens when this child is an inconvenience or a disappointment, a “not what we expected”? (Sounds like another Huxwellian industry waiting in the wings to me.)
My God-parents were childless. I know it was a private sorrow for them - they looked forward to having a family that never came. They had no one to leave the family farm to. But they accepted their lot with humility, and aimed to live kind, good lives. I am most fortunate that they have been my mentors in my faith (Orthodox Christian) and my life.
Thanks again Mark. I hope that you will keep writing essays.
I do agree with you about IVF being immoral. However I’m also a totally natural “old mom”. I had my first child naturally at 36, my third naturally at 42. My friend had her first surprise baby at 42. It’s actually totally possible to have a baby in midlife. No technological intervention. I asked my midwife who the oldest women was that she had delivered for and she said 52 also conceived naturally. A woman in our homeschool group had her last of 9 children at 45. All conceived naturally. If you believe efforts are in place to control population growth then it would make sense to impose an idea of a short fertility window and make risky “geriatric pregnancy” a taboo. Eliza Hamilton had her last child in her late 40s I believe 47. This is not a new phenomenon.
It’s all just another symptom of the disrespect for human life and life in general planet wide. Allowing this is just more disrespect. Even this just adds to the evil forms of child sacrifice prevalent today.
Interesting timing for me to “hear” this. One of my sons (who fortunately needed no encouragement to not follow 🇨🇦government orders around jabs) mentioned in a heartfelt conversation recently that if he and his wife are not successful at starting a family he wouldn’t want to do IVF. I was curious as I hadn’t thought about it much before other than it all felt a bit lab like and distasteful to me on a gut level… but I have successfully become pregnant whenever I wanted and have tried to imagine the distress of not having that monumental life shift. He said it “didn’t feel right to him and we could discuss it more later”…. Thought provoking article Mark, and well put together. I see a lot of what you are saying and it resonates and gives me more to think on. Thanks.
Another thing that almost nobody talks about is what having the ability to choose to eliminate certain disabilities right at the start will do down the road to those who end up being born with disabilities. Take Iceland, for example. Not too long ago its government announced that it had eradicated Down's Syndrome from the island. They did this through prenatal testing and abortion. Now I don't know if this was a voluntary choice on the part of those women who found themselves carrying a Down's Syndrome fetus or whether they were pressured in one way or another to make that decision. I suspect the latter. All right now, let's say that a pregnant woman gets tested, learns she is carrying a Down's Syndrome child, and decides NOT to abort. Do you for one minute think that the Icelandic school system, just to name one, will be sympathetic to the special needs of such a child? Do you think Icelandic taxpayers will be willing to subsidize such needs?
Disability rights advocates here in the United States have fought hard for the recognition that some people need more accommodation than others. They have fought hard for inclusion. When I was growing up, special needs children were often institutionalized or otherwise segregated from society and they certainly were not expected to achieve much of anything. They were often belittled and put down, which is why I strenuously object to the word "retard" being used as an insult. Do you REALLY realize what you are saying about people with Down's and other special needs when you are throwing that word around? You are saying that they are less than, that they don't deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, and increasingly, that they shouldn't even exist. Right now, the special needs population is exploding, mainly due to the increase in autism diagnoses. This puts stress on schools especially schools which are located in poor communities, because these schools are required by law to provide individualized educational development plans--and all this takes money. What have we been hearing a lot of lately? Cities are broke. Governments are broke. Social Security is going broke. Not enough people are entering the workforce and paying into the system. Yes, we are being told this over and over. Also, at the same time we are being told that there are too many people on this planet.
Right now we do not know what causes autism. If it turns out to be genetic so that it can be caught prenatally, what do you think will happen once parents are allowed to have a choice? And once they are allowed to have that choice, what will happen to all these services I have mentioned above? I can very well see a school system say to a parent whose child requires intensive services, YOU made that choice, NOW that is YOUR problem, not ours. Don't ask us to fix it. Because you see, these decisions are not as private as you might want to believe.
excellent. Human trafficking is in the news and movies but IVF and surrogacy are human trafficking too and it needs to stop. Our society is so messed up-we have to teach our children that this is wrong and don't do it.
I know women who underwent IVF. One told me she now wonders about the ethics but we didn't go into discussing why as I know it's painful for her. Bishop Barron discusses it and makes a very similar analysis to your own. Initially, it seemed, forgive me for this, patriarchal but I know Barron is a serious thinker. And I can't dismiss that we have made a mess of what had been an instinctual need to reproduce. I wonder if a direct line can be drawn from this to the commodification of children where they are now taught they are mere potatohead figurines where bits and pieces can be swapped out by the feeling of the day.
As a gynecologist, I’m with you 100%. Great topic … from metabolic issues that nobody wants to discuss including the infertility docs that want your cash to the impatience of the patient , and some of these drugs are horrible… side note lets talk about the kids waiting to be adopted . The topic is endless and very controversial . Thanks Mark 🌼
You’re a very good writer and your essays are both entertaining and informative. I hope you will continue to write on topics beyond coronamania. There are many topics in modern society that could benefit from your searing logic and intellectual honesty. This was a great essay.
Once again man thumbs his nose at God in a contest to prove who is master of the universe, combining DNA, altering DNA, tampering with creation.
What a time to be alive.
Thanks Mark for throwing haymakers at ideas that desperately need knocking out.
Thank you for a very thoughtful and informed essay about these points that nobody wants to think about or discuss. Just one of the many shifts in what people take for granted, that has manifested over the past few decades. Losing sight of the sacredness and gift of life will lead us astray in so many ways!
Wow. Unexpectedly off-topic (at least from what I've come to expect), but such a great piece of writing. I appreciate the depth of your essay. I'm not a writer, but one another point I might add is the long-term health harms to moms (and egg donors) who self-inject with all sorts of hormones to make this process happen. I've read in the past about the blind-eye that is turned towards the health risks of young women who are financially incentivized to donate eggs multiple times. The health implications of this are not known or even addressed. And on a personal level, I know a young adult born of a donated egg who grew up with such a yearning to know her "other" mother, the egg donor. While this is a topic more typically considered with adopted children, I wonder if it's less frequently addressed with respect to children born of donated eggs. Thank you for addressing this topic in such a well-researched and thoughtful manner.
100% totally agree with this.❤️
Excellent iteration of all aspects of this horrible practice. Thank you.
Thank you for the insightful, crisp clarity of your article Mark. You must have been one heck of a lawyer if you prepared for, and articulated, every case as you did this incredibly important but emotional subject.
Treating children as a commodity to satisfy the happiness of the “adults” is a horrifying concept. It makes my heart fairly shriek with the utter wrongness of the notion. Not only gamete donors, but women turned into incubators to grow the baby for a couple is just another way of cheapening life and turning it into an industrial commodity. What happens when this child is an inconvenience or a disappointment, a “not what we expected”? (Sounds like another Huxwellian industry waiting in the wings to me.)
My God-parents were childless. I know it was a private sorrow for them - they looked forward to having a family that never came. They had no one to leave the family farm to. But they accepted their lot with humility, and aimed to live kind, good lives. I am most fortunate that they have been my mentors in my faith (Orthodox Christian) and my life.
Thanks again Mark. I hope that you will keep writing essays.
I do agree with you about IVF being immoral. However I’m also a totally natural “old mom”. I had my first child naturally at 36, my third naturally at 42. My friend had her first surprise baby at 42. It’s actually totally possible to have a baby in midlife. No technological intervention. I asked my midwife who the oldest women was that she had delivered for and she said 52 also conceived naturally. A woman in our homeschool group had her last of 9 children at 45. All conceived naturally. If you believe efforts are in place to control population growth then it would make sense to impose an idea of a short fertility window and make risky “geriatric pregnancy” a taboo. Eliza Hamilton had her last child in her late 40s I believe 47. This is not a new phenomenon.
This is the best, THE BEST article I have read on this subject in recent years. THANK YOU. Sharing the link WIDELY.
It’s all just another symptom of the disrespect for human life and life in general planet wide. Allowing this is just more disrespect. Even this just adds to the evil forms of child sacrifice prevalent today.
Interesting timing for me to “hear” this. One of my sons (who fortunately needed no encouragement to not follow 🇨🇦government orders around jabs) mentioned in a heartfelt conversation recently that if he and his wife are not successful at starting a family he wouldn’t want to do IVF. I was curious as I hadn’t thought about it much before other than it all felt a bit lab like and distasteful to me on a gut level… but I have successfully become pregnant whenever I wanted and have tried to imagine the distress of not having that monumental life shift. He said it “didn’t feel right to him and we could discuss it more later”…. Thought provoking article Mark, and well put together. I see a lot of what you are saying and it resonates and gives me more to think on. Thanks.
Another thing that almost nobody talks about is what having the ability to choose to eliminate certain disabilities right at the start will do down the road to those who end up being born with disabilities. Take Iceland, for example. Not too long ago its government announced that it had eradicated Down's Syndrome from the island. They did this through prenatal testing and abortion. Now I don't know if this was a voluntary choice on the part of those women who found themselves carrying a Down's Syndrome fetus or whether they were pressured in one way or another to make that decision. I suspect the latter. All right now, let's say that a pregnant woman gets tested, learns she is carrying a Down's Syndrome child, and decides NOT to abort. Do you for one minute think that the Icelandic school system, just to name one, will be sympathetic to the special needs of such a child? Do you think Icelandic taxpayers will be willing to subsidize such needs?
Disability rights advocates here in the United States have fought hard for the recognition that some people need more accommodation than others. They have fought hard for inclusion. When I was growing up, special needs children were often institutionalized or otherwise segregated from society and they certainly were not expected to achieve much of anything. They were often belittled and put down, which is why I strenuously object to the word "retard" being used as an insult. Do you REALLY realize what you are saying about people with Down's and other special needs when you are throwing that word around? You are saying that they are less than, that they don't deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, and increasingly, that they shouldn't even exist. Right now, the special needs population is exploding, mainly due to the increase in autism diagnoses. This puts stress on schools especially schools which are located in poor communities, because these schools are required by law to provide individualized educational development plans--and all this takes money. What have we been hearing a lot of lately? Cities are broke. Governments are broke. Social Security is going broke. Not enough people are entering the workforce and paying into the system. Yes, we are being told this over and over. Also, at the same time we are being told that there are too many people on this planet.
Right now we do not know what causes autism. If it turns out to be genetic so that it can be caught prenatally, what do you think will happen once parents are allowed to have a choice? And once they are allowed to have that choice, what will happen to all these services I have mentioned above? I can very well see a school system say to a parent whose child requires intensive services, YOU made that choice, NOW that is YOUR problem, not ours. Don't ask us to fix it. Because you see, these decisions are not as private as you might want to believe.
excellent. Human trafficking is in the news and movies but IVF and surrogacy are human trafficking too and it needs to stop. Our society is so messed up-we have to teach our children that this is wrong and don't do it.
I know women who underwent IVF. One told me she now wonders about the ethics but we didn't go into discussing why as I know it's painful for her. Bishop Barron discusses it and makes a very similar analysis to your own. Initially, it seemed, forgive me for this, patriarchal but I know Barron is a serious thinker. And I can't dismiss that we have made a mess of what had been an instinctual need to reproduce. I wonder if a direct line can be drawn from this to the commodification of children where they are now taught they are mere potatohead figurines where bits and pieces can be swapped out by the feeling of the day.
Sometimes you just shouldn't mess with Mother Nature.